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Question about dysonlowrider

• MistermetalPosted on 5/25/2023 at 7:51 PM

  I looked through his album guesses and he seemingly guessed mutiple albums with the same name somehow. Is this against the rules?

• 37exmilPosted on 5/26/2023 at 12:01 AM

  "Knowingly guessing multiple versions of the same album" is a rule violation on this website. The key part of that rule is "knowingly". You might be wondering how someone could knowingly guess the same album twice when there is a function that prevents duplicate guesses.
  
  Bringing this up may lead to more abuse, but I believe it is an issue that should be fixed. From what I understand, the repeat guess algorithm on this website functions separately from the spelling error algorithm. When I had a deja vu moment after making a guess one day, I looked back and found I had unknowingly guessed an album twice and earned points from both guesses. I was curious as to how that was possible. After thinking about the different possibilities, I tested out my theory by making a guess with an intentional minor typo on a different drawing of an album I had already guessed before (dock me 100 points if you feel so inclined) and found my answer.
  
  It's possible that someone could guess an album twice and get points for both guesses without knowing any better. I'd bet good money that the majority of users with high scores have done it at least once before. It's also possible that someone aware of this design flaw could abuse it to guess the same album multiple times for extra points. I am not sure if dysonlowrider did this, and I'm not going to speculate. I just think the algorithm should be changed to prevent this abuse from being possible at all, and I hope that other members will be respectful and not abuse this flaw for their own gain.

• Pyretta blazePosted on 5/26/2023 at 12:35 AM

  It does happen, and while I probably have unwittingly made the mistake of guessing the same record twice, I think the typo algorithm is a good thing, I mean one point of contention I'd like to throw out is reissues and remasters that altar the cover, and assuming the version is specified in the album side is it ethical to guess it twice. (Think Hawthorne Height's the silence in black and white reissue, or the deluxe issues of Led Zeppelin albums that alter the color scheme) as while they are the same album they have a different cover, sort of the opposite of issue of Weezer-Weezer, Killing Joke -killing joke or Heavy Rocks -Boris

• Pyretta blazePosted on 5/26/2023 at 12:51 AM

  In addition, if the filter is applied too overzealously things that could be read as typos could prevent people from guessing legitimate albums (take 1000 gecs and 10000 gecs) in my eyes for the sake of Admin and ourselves the filter as stands, while flawed and possible to abuse is perhaps the best to be done for now without changing the code of the site entirely.

• MistermetalPosted on 5/26/2023 at 12:55 AM

  Yeah I understand your point about making the typo system too overzealous as a bad thing

• MistermetalPosted on 5/26/2023 at 12:57 AM

  But I never see his guesses on albums that he already guessed be wrong before his appeal since it usually takes 1 day for my appeals to be read

• MistermetalPosted on 5/26/2023 at 1:03 AM

  plus I saw him guessed the same album twice literally on the same day almost back to back im sure his memory cant be that awful

• Pyretta blazePosted on 5/26/2023 at 1:31 AM

  Ok yeah fair enough, that is a bit obvious, I should've checked their page first, (using they cause I don't know people's pronouns on here, and I feel that's the most respectful move)

• MistermetalPosted on 5/26/2023 at 7:53 AM

  I guess I have to wait until admin comments on this

• 37exmilPosted on 5/26/2023 at 11:53 AM

  Thanks for mentioning Boris, Pyretta. It made me remember that the album I tested the double-guess with was Akuma no Uta. One of them was the reissue cover with the Nick Drake homage, and the other was the original artwork. I don't see an issue with getting points for variations of an album if they are different enough. I think the biggest issue with drawing deluxe album covers and other variations is that it can be difficult for users to know what they should enter in the textbox. I suppose there's no issue if the drawing offers a hint as to what needs to be included. I did something similar when I drew an EP to avoid confusion with the album:
  
  I'd say whenever the correct way to type the artist or album title is ambiguous, leave some indication of how the user should type their answer.

• AdminPosted on 5/26/2023 at 2:59 PM

  Yeah, the most common way that users "cheat" on this site is to make small typos in their answers to get around the basic "duplicate guess" detection that I have in place. Some of it is unintentional (not remembering you've already guessed a different drawing of the same album) and some of it is absolutely intentional.
  
  37exmil has it figured out pretty well. A guess has to be like 90% accurate for it to register as a correct guess, so a typo of one letter usually gets marked as correct. For short album titles, any typo might cause the guess to be wrong. The "duplicate guess" checker only checks if your guess *exactly matches* an album you've already guessed because it would be too slow to do a more lenient "fuzzy check", especially if you have thousands of guesses. So users in general have to put in fewer appeals (less work for me!), but it also means the system can be gamed.
  
  The solution to all this would be to "group" all drawings of the same album in the backend so that it's literally impossible to put in a guess for multiple versions of the same album. However, that's a lot of work (both from a coding and from a moderation perspective) so for now I just plan to deal with the shortcomings and hope that my beloved users don't get too bothered by it!

• 37exmilPosted on 5/26/2023 at 3:19 PM

  It's no big deal to me. My idea for the fix didn't account for effort on your end, and what you said makes total sense.
  
  Also, is "exmil" not long enough to be a username? I swore I put the 37 in front because another user already took it, but it looks like that isn't the case.

• MistermetalPosted on 5/26/2023 at 6:29 PM

  Its not really that big of a deal to me ether tbh

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